SOTCW

Richard, I messed up, try this.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/me … y+in+WW+II

Richard, What did the French sell to the Chinese then?

12 AMR ZB (half with 13.2mm guns and half with a 37mm gun) were ordered by the Central Chinese Gvt and 4 by the Yunan Provincial Gvt. All appear to have been impounded in Indochina under Japanese pressure and 10 are known to have been released between Feb and June 1940 through Burma.  Source : Jane's WW2 Tanks by Leland Ness

The AMR ZB was an export-only development of the AMR 33 with the running gear developped for the AMC 35.

<<http://www.timelifepictures.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=50620490&cdi=0>>

Wooohoo!!! PROOF AT LAST!!!!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
www.metal-express.net

<<You certainly deserve the title "expert on French weirdness" not me >>

Mai, oui! Guilty as charged, Your Honor.... >;D

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
www.metal-express.net
(who is now working on developing his *Chinese wierdness* expertise to the same degree of minutae)

EnAvant! wrote:

<<12 AMR ZB (half with 13.2mm guns and half with a 37mm gun) >>

Singh,

AFAIK no variant of the Renault ZB mounted a 37mm weapon; either a 7.5mm LMG, a 13.2mm Hotchkiss HMG, or a 25mm Hotchkiss 34SA anti-tank gun was fitted depending upon the model. Do you know of any documentation and/or photos to confirm the 37mm weapon being fitted?

Many thanks!

Leland R. Erickson
Metal Express
www.metal-express.net

While Leland's remark is correct as regards the French Renault AMR ZT versions, the Chinese AMR-ZB is a different matter.  Singh's statement on them is correct to the best of my knowledge.  For documentation, I can submit the following comment on the matter from Leland Ness:

“The information came largely from the French weapons export documents held by SHAT. There are, unfortunately, no similar documents for vehicle exports. An order from China for 6 "Canons de 37mm pour mitrailleuses Renault ZB" from Schneider shows up first in March 1936, along with 1,500 rounds of HE, 1,500 of HE-T (!), 3,000 of AP and 300 of TP. It remains listed as a pending (uncompleted) order until July 1938, when the deliveries are finally listed as having been made. So the guns, at least, were in fact delivered under the China account (presumably to Renault) in mid-1938.

Given the distribution of guns/MGs and the timeline (vehicle deliveries in February 1940) I have to believe that at least some of the 37mm-armed vehicles were, in fact, delivered. Certainly there is a photo of a 13.2mm-armed vehicle (which I paid an exorbitant amount to reproduce in the book) in service in Burma.”

Leland Ness

In addition to the 12 AMR-ZB, the Central Government order also included 10 Renault UE, which were seized and retained by the French after the entire order was impounded in Indochina.  At least 10 of the 12 AMR-ZB were finally delivered to the Chinese via Burma between February and June of 1940.  The fate of the last two vehicles still appears uncertain.

My apologies for performing necromancy on such an old thread, but as the topic of the AMR-ZB has resurfaced elsewhere on the forum.....

David

Perhaps I'm the one who's confused, but I thought the mystery tank under discussion here was this one:



Another view of the Renault AMR-ZB (prior to delivery) here:



David